{"id":7387,"date":"2021-03-25T08:52:32","date_gmt":"2021-03-25T08:52:32","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/?p=7387"},"modified":"2021-04-12T02:52:06","modified_gmt":"2021-04-12T02:52:06","slug":"interview-eu-ambassador-in-china-nicolas-chapuis","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/interview-eu-ambassador-in-china-nicolas-chapuis\/","title":{"rendered":"EU ambassador to China, Nicolas Chapuis on the bloc&#8217;s new relationship with China"},"content":{"rendered":"<h2>Nicolas Chapuis, the EU\u2019s ambassador in Beijing, on why the bloc is making progress in its relations with China, and why you won&#8217;t hear him using words like &#8216;decoupling&#8217; or &#8216;containment&#8217; any time soon<\/h2>\n<p>\u201cWe have gained relevance\u2026 we are talking to the boss now,\u201d Nicolas Chapuis tells <a href=\"http:\/\/www.cbbc.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">CBBC<\/a> in an interview in early March.<\/p>\n<p>By the \u201cboss\u201d, Chapuis clearly means Xi Jinping himself. The Chinese leader has in recent times taken over from Premier Li Keqiang at high-level meetings between the EU and China, and is reportedly pushing for the two sides\u2019 recently agreed <a href=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/guide-to-eu-china-comprehensive-agreement-on-investment\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Comprehensive Deal on Investment<\/a> (CAI) to be ratified as soon as possible \u2013 an ambition shared by EU President Ursula Von der Leyen.<\/p>\n<p>For Ambassador Chapuis, Xi\u2019s involvement is an important win in itself: \u201cWe cannot be a second-grade power,\u201d he says. \u201cWe cannot be a geopolitical commission, and be relegated to State Council level.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"\/lp-cta-navigator\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-7250 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-navigator.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"4680\" height=\"786\" srcset=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-navigator.png 4680w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-navigator-300x50.png 300w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-navigator-1024x172.png 1024w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-navigator-768x129.png 768w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-navigator-1536x258.png 1536w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-navigator-2048x344.png 2048w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-navigator-1920x322.png 1920w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-navigator-1170x197.png 1170w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-navigator-585x98.png 585w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 4680px) 100vw, 4680px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>Chapuis is aware of the growing difficulties in EU-China relations. We spoke shortly after the draft text of the EU-China CAI had its first outing in front of MEPs, with several voicing concerns over whether it is strong enough to effect real change in the way China runs its economy. As a result, the European Parliament\u2019s ratification of the CAI is far from a foregone conclusion.<\/p>\n<p>Yet for Chapuis the conclusion of the seven-year-long CAI negotiation, along with the recent entry into force of the Geographic Indicators Agreement signed last September, prove that \u201cafter years of promise fatigue, increasing gaps in what is said and what is done in China, [the EU] could deliver what it considers to be significant progress in the relationship.\u201d<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_7396\" style=\"width: 1396px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-7396\" class=\"wp-image-7396 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV1.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1386\" height=\"924\" srcset=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV1.jpeg 1386w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV1-300x200.jpeg 300w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV1-1024x682.jpeg 1024w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV1-768x512.jpeg 768w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV1-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV1-1170x780.jpeg 1170w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV1-585x390.jpeg 585w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV1-263x175.jpeg 263w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1386px) 100vw, 1386px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-7396\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Chapuis believes European leaders have finally discovered how to work together on China<\/p><\/div>\n<p>Chapuis believes European leaders have finally discovered how to work together on China, with the final months of CAI negotiations showing the power and influence of the EU at its best. He cites the cooperation between French President Emmanuel Macron, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, as well as Ms Von der Leyen and EU Council president Charles Michel, which finally managed to herd the EU\u2019s 27 member states and China to conclude the 7 year-long-negotiation on 30 December 2020.<\/p>\n<div style=\"clear:both; margin-top:2em; margin-bottom:2em;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/top-10-most-common-mistakes-foreign-businesses-make-in-china\/\" target=\"_self\" rel=\"dofollow\" class=\"u846a07c2366627f60e3ff9ae8ffc6a6c\"><style> .u846a07c2366627f60e3ff9ae8ffc6a6c { padding:0px; margin: 0; padding-top:1em!important; padding-bottom:1em!important; width:100%; display: block; font-weight:bold; background-color:#eaeaea; border:0!important; border-left:4px solid #E74C3C!important; box-shadow: 0 1px 2px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.17); -moz-box-shadow: 0 1px 2px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.17); -o-box-shadow: 0 1px 2px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.17); -webkit-box-shadow: 0 1px 2px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.17); text-decoration:none; } .u846a07c2366627f60e3ff9ae8ffc6a6c:active, .u846a07c2366627f60e3ff9ae8ffc6a6c:hover { opacity: 1; transition: opacity 250ms; webkit-transition: opacity 250ms; text-decoration:none; } .u846a07c2366627f60e3ff9ae8ffc6a6c { transition: background-color 250ms; webkit-transition: background-color 250ms; opacity: 1; transition: opacity 250ms; webkit-transition: opacity 250ms; } .u846a07c2366627f60e3ff9ae8ffc6a6c .ctaText { font-weight:bold; color:#E74C3C; text-decoration:none; font-size: 16px; } .u846a07c2366627f60e3ff9ae8ffc6a6c .postTitle { color:#000000; text-decoration: underline!important; font-size: 16px; } .u846a07c2366627f60e3ff9ae8ffc6a6c:hover .postTitle { text-decoration: underline!important; } <\/style><div style=\"padding-left:1em; padding-right:1em;\"><span class=\"ctaText\">Read Also<\/span>&nbsp; <span class=\"postTitle\">Top 10 most common mistakes foreign businesses make in China<\/span><\/div><\/a><\/div>\n<p>This unusual format was first shaped in March 2019, during President Xi\u2019s state visit to France, a few days before the April 2019 EU-China Summit in Brussels. French President Macron had invited the EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker and Angela Merkel for a collective meeting with the Chinese President, and \u201cthe Chinese didn\u2019t know how to deal with that\u201d according to the Ambassador. \u201cThis meeting was key to give the necessary political impetus, it managed to elevate the EU in the eyes of China\u2026 and that had never happened before.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>While the ambassador is confident that the European Parliament may ratify the CAI under France\u2019s EU Presidency in 2022, he recognizes that it recently voted down an FTA with Latin America, and took longer than anticipated to ratify another with Vietnam. He said the Commission is readying itself for a similar contest over the CAI.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThere will be what I call a lively discussion \u2026 and the Commission will do everything it can to explain to Parliament why this agreement is worth ratifying,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<p>Chapuis believes there is one step China could take that would both help the CAI process and improve its international reputation \u2013 ratifying the ILO conventions on forced labour and the UN Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cYou cannot claim on one hand that there is no forced labour in China, and then on the other not ratify the ILO conventions on forced labour,\u201d he said. Noting that the US has also not ratified the ILO conventions, Chapuis said that China should \u201cstop looking at the world through the US prism, look at the world as one community, and please ratify [the conventions].\u201d<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Stop looking at the world through the US prism, look at the world as one community, and please ratify the conventions.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>This notion of the world as one community is central to the Ambassador\u2019s worldview and how he advocates as a diplomat. It is the reason he considers China\u2019s decision to close its borders to foreign students wanting to study Chinese as \u201cthe most unwise move it could have taken.\u201d It is the reason, too, he found it absurd that there was no Asian element to the philosophy degree he studied first at university, leading him to drop out and take Chinese instead.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_7395\" style=\"width: 1396px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-7395\" class=\"wp-image-7395 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV2.jpeg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1386\" height=\"924\" srcset=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV2.jpeg 1386w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV2-300x200.jpeg 300w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV2-1024x683.jpeg 1024w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV2-768x512.jpeg 768w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV2-1536x1024.jpeg 1536w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV2-1170x780.jpeg 1170w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV2-585x390.jpeg 585w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/ChapuisKV2-263x175.jpeg 263w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1386px) 100vw, 1386px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-7395\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Containment, decoupling, things like that, this is not the EU\u2019s language, says the Ambassador<\/p><\/div>\n<p>And it is why he feels it is essential that the new <a href=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/four-experts-give-their-view-on-what-china-can-expect-from-the-biden-administration\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Biden Administration<\/a> seeks to engage with China rather than to confront it.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cContainment, decoupling, things like that, this is not the EU\u2019s language, we are not going to do that [\u2026] there is no alternative to engagement when it comes to China,\u201d he said. Ambassador Chapuis continued by mentioning that he welcomed the new US administration\u2019s aspiration to consult with Europe on shared interests in China policy, and noted that the US was finding merit in the EU\u2019s description of its relationship with China: Simultaneously a partner on global issues, an economic and technological competitor, and a systemic rival on governance. As for the post-Brexit UK, the Ambassador hoped that there would be a similar alignment with the EU\u2019s position.<\/p>\n<p>Chapuis believes the UK-China relationship is in \u201cgreat hands,\u201d with <a href=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/profile-who-is-the-uks-ambassador-to-china-caroline-wilson\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Caroline Wilson<\/a> as ambassador in Beijing and <a href=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/will-zheng-zeguang-take-a-tough-line-as-the-new-ambassador-to-the-uk\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Zheng Zeguang<\/a> \u2013 whom he describes as a \u201cfine diplomat\u201d \u2013 on his way to London as Chinese ambassador.<\/p>\n<p>Looking forward, Chapuis is confident that he can move the dial in EU-China relations by persuading the Chinese leadership that \u201cno one is going to eat you, [that] the three little pigs are ok.\u201d If he\u2019s right, the EU-China relationship might look very different come 2022.<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><em>This interview took place before the Chinese authorities sanctioned the EU in response to Human Rights sanctions over Xinjiang on 22 March 2021.\u00a0 As Executive Vice President and Trade Commissioner Valdis Dombrovskis said on 24 March, \u201cthe prospects for the CAI\u2019s ratification will depend on how the situation evolves, the ratification process cannot be separated from the evolving dynamics of the wider EU-China relationship. (\u2026) pursuing our economic interest goes hand in hand with standing up for our values, including where necessary through sanctions.\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"\/lp-cta-membership1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-7248 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-membership1.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"4680\" height=\"786\" srcset=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-membership1.png 4680w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-membership1-300x50.png 300w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-membership1-1024x172.png 1024w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-membership1-768x129.png 768w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-membership1-1536x258.png 1536w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-membership1-2048x344.png 2048w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-membership1-1920x322.png 1920w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-membership1-1170x197.png 1170w, https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/lp-membership1-585x98.png 585w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 4680px) 100vw, 4680px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Nicolas Chapuis, the EU\u2019s ambassador in Beijing, on why the bloc is making progress in its relations with China, and why you won&#8217;t hear him using words like &#8216;decoupling&#8217; or &#8216;containment&#8217; any time soon \u201cWe have gained relevance\u2026 we are talking to the boss now,\u201d Nicolas Chapuis tells CBBC in an interview in early March. By the \u201cboss\u201d, Chapuis clearly means Xi Jinping himself. The Chinese leader has in recent&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":26,"featured_media":7394,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"inline_featured_image":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"","_lmt_disable":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[132],"tags":[2080,333],"class_list":["post-7387","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-news","tag-eu","tag-politics"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.8 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>EU ambassador to China, Nicolas Chapuis on the bloc&#039;s new relationship with China - Focus - China Britain Business Council<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Chapuis on why the EU is making progress in its relations with China, and why you won&#039;t hear him using words like &#039;decoupling&#039; any time soon\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/focus.cbbc.org\/interview-eu-ambassador-in-china-nicolas-chapuis\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_GB\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"EU ambassador to China, Nicolas Chapuis on the bloc&#039;s new relationship with China - 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